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Bentham's Bulldog's avatar

Nice post! I also think that the number of people in the past who feared technology is mostly irrelevant. Even if a few people have hyperbolically claimed that technology would end the world, based on bad arguments, that wouldn't be very relevant to figuring out whether to worry about AI risk. It would only be convincing if a sizeable share of very smart, quite reasonable people, with a history of soberly analyzing other risks (e.g. not thinking climate change would end the world), after carefully considering the arguments on both sides, came to conclude lots of previous technologies would end the world.

Analogy: suppose that since the year 0, a bunch of confused people thought that evolution explained lots of things it didn't actually explain--the weather, the presence of Earth, abiogenesis, and so on. This wouldn't affect the odds of evolution very much. The fact that people have stupidly thought X in the past doesn't mean nothing resembling X might be right in the present. It would be reasonable to say, in response to the hypothetical evolution deniers based on induction, "yes, a few nutters thought that evolution explained things it didn't explain, but now we actually have a plausible story of things it explains, believed by many smart scientists who have carefully considered the arguments on both sides."

In other words, you shouldn't do induction of the form "silly people and tabloid journalists thought X," when smart, sober, and reasonable people in the present think something similar to X. For it to be a reasonable induction, the people making errors in the past must be roughly as reasonable as the people holding the belief in the present.

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quiet_NaN's avatar

Great post.

Two minor (if lengthy) comments:

Regarding the LHC, I would point out that the fears about creating black holes etc were not a priory as silly as that lawsuit makes them out to be. The main argument of the pro-LHC side was that Earth is bombarded by cosmic rays which result in collisions with similar center-of-mass energy as LHC collisions all the time. The counterargument is that the cosmic ray induced collisions happen in frames of reference which are highly relativistic relative to earth, while those at LHC could move relatively slow to Earth. The counterargument to that argument is that cosmic rays also impact much denser objects like neutron stars (which would slow even a highly relativistic micro-BH), and yet these objects exist for us to observe them and have not all been swallowed by black holes.

I think that the estimate of Martin Rees, who gave an upper bound of a 1 in 50 million chance is likely reasonable. After all, there are always unknown unknowns -- if we knew perfectly well what the physics of LHC were beforehand, there would have been no reason to spend billions to build it. (Intuition pump: what is the probability that we are living in an anthropocentric simulation which uses crude approximations for neutron stars but might crash bug in untested code when having to precisely run an LHC-energy collision because the apes are watching closely?) 1:50M is not much, but it would imply that the expected death toll of LHC-induced black holes is around 100 people (which is a minor concern compared to the number of lives which could be saved for its costs, unless you count the impact on future generations).

As a physicist, I would gladly pay my 20 nano-morts to learn that Higgs was right all along, but I can imagine that a random person on the street might have a different opinion on that. (The other argument is that running LHC experiments is occupying a lot of extremely smart people who might join other smart people who do high-frequency trading, found cryptocurrency exchanges or develop AGI, all of which are activities where the expected death toll per marginal genius is orders of magnitude higher.)

> Sort of – it does seem that Edison was sincere in his belief that alternating current was dangerous, which is why, against the advice of his own colleagues, he did not invest in it himself. One could portray this as an example of a credible expert whose misguided fears of the technology he had spent many years studying was responsible for slowing progress and delaying mass adoption, an accusation often levied at so-called “AI doomers”.

I would argue that all things (especially effective voltages) being equal, DC *is* safer than AC. If you look up the definition of extra low voltage -- which denotes voltages where there is normally little danger from electrical shocks, you will find that it is defined as less than 120V for DC, but less than 50V for AC. The reason for that is that ventricular fibrillation -- a common way for people to die in electric accidents through cardiac arrest -- as caused much easier by AC voltages.

Reading the war of the currents Wikipedia article, I furthermore notice that "all being equal" is an overly nice assumption towards AC in that age. Edison's DC was 110V, which would be called an extra-low voltage today. By contrast, the main advantage of AC is that you can easily transform it. Per WP, the AC lines were running at up to 6kV -- a voltage which can kill you even if you are not touching it directly. I would much rather be working with Edison's DC in 1880 than with AC.

What killed DC was not its lack of safety, but its limited usefulness. Electrical power (energy over time) is current times voltage. With DC, there was no good way to change voltages, so you had to transport your electricity at the voltage the end users could safely use. This implied that you needed a high current. The losses in your conductor are proportional to the its length times the current flowing through divided by its cross-section. This means that low-voltage DC requires thick wires, and the longer distance you want to transport it, the thicker wires you need (if you want to keep the losses capped).

By contrast, AC can easily be transformed to higher or lower voltages as required, which enabled you to use much lower currents. If you transform it to 5.5kV, you can use wire cross-sections 50x smaller than the ones Edison had to use -- or you could go 50x the distance if you kept the cross-section the same.

The fact that electricity, even AC is at the safety level it is today (with a separate PE lead, RCDs, specs for isolators and so on) is the result of perhaps 70 years of regulations being written in blood (or charred flesh, in this case).

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